S2EP9: Going Public via a Reverse-Merger with Sabrina Johnson

She had the science, the credentials, and a market that encompassed half the population. The people with the capital just didn't care enough about women's health to bet on it. So she stopped trying to convince them.

In this episode of The Capital Flex, I sit down with Sabrina Martucci Johnson, founder and CEO of Daré Bioscience, the only publicly traded company on any exchange working solely in women's health. Daré builds science-backed solutions for women across contraception, menopause, arousal, fertility, and vaginal health, use cases that have been chronically underfunded because the people controlling the capital never personally needed them.

We dig into the ‘relatability gap’, the structural reason investors fund problems they've lived and pass on problems they haven't,  how Sabrina used a reverse merger to secure capital and take her company public, and why Daré has created investment opportunities for the very women its products are built to serve. 

Key Takeaways:

• Venture isn't the only path to capital. A reverse merger is a legitimate alternate strategy, among others, and needs a depth of insight to be successful. 
• Women are the largest consumers of healthcare. Investors see those numbers and think the market is served. They don’t see that most of the spending isn't for her.
• For the first time, the women who actually need these products can invest in the company building them. Not hedge funds. Not institutions. The women the industry spent decades ignoring.
• Investors are humans first and capital allocators second. If they can't feel the problem you're solving, no market-size number is going to convince them. Lead with the patient always.

My Reflection & Challenge:

Like so many others, Sabrina had the science and the market; she just didn't have anyone willing to invest in women's health. And after more than a year facing closed doors, she stopped knocking and pivoted.

Instead of waiting, what I love is that she bet on what she already knew and took Daré public without them.

It wasn't easy. But it was on her terms. And that made it worth it.

This Week's Challenge:

Before your next investor conversation, do three things:

1. Find out if these investors have ever personally faced the problem you’re solving. If they haven’t, figure out how you’ll make them feel it before asking them to fund it.
2. Map the room beyond your champion. The person across the table is not always the one making the final call.
3. Know your options outside venture. Every one of them. Before you’re in a position where you need them.

Capital is not just money. It’s a long-term relationship. Choose wisely.

Links and Resources: 

https://darebioscience.com/  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabrina-johnson-27799829/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/dare-bioscience/ 

https://www.instagram.com/darebioscience  

If you enjoyed this conversation, follow The Capital Flex, leave a rating, and share this episode with a founder who needs it.

And if you’re looking for a more candid space to talk fundraising, power, and building inside systems not designed for you, stay close. The conversation continues.

Production and Administration work completed by Smart Podcast Solutions and Elevate Business Solutions. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

This is the Capital Flex. I'm Naseem Sayani. This show codifies the Capital Playbook because no founder should have to learn the hard way. We talk about what really happens behind closed doors. The bias, the breakthroughs, and the things no one says out loud. If you've ever walked into a room and felt the system wasn't built for you, you're in the right place. Hello and welcome to the Capital Flex. My guest today is Sabrina Martucci-Johnson, founder of Dare Bioscience. She founded the company in 2015. Dare is a purpose-driven health biotech company solely focused on closing the gap in women's health between promising science and real-world solutions. Every innovation at Dare Bioscience is based in advanced science and backed by rigorous peer-reviewed research. From contraception to menopause, sexual health to fertility, vaginal health to infectious disease, Dare Bioscience is working to close critical gaps in care using science that serves her needs. Prior to founding Dare, she was president of Woman Care Global Trading, a global provider of women's health products, CFO and CAO of the California Institute of Biomedical Research, and CFO COO of Cypress Bioscience, was a public traded company on the NASDAQ Exchange. In the community, she is also very dedicated to the same category of efforts and to organizations that serve women and girls and promote education. She is the chair of the board of Biocom California on the Board of Bio and ATAI life sciences and on the board of advisors of the Tulane School of Science and Engineering. She has also been named as one of Fierce Pharma's most influential people in biopharma for her contributions to innovation and advocacy in the women's health space. It's fascinating. And I love sharing all the accolades because we don't get to say them out loud enough, so I felt like I had to. The really important detail about Dare is that it's a publicly listed company on NASDAQ. And of all the founders I have spoken to so far, she's the first that founded and is running a publicly traded company, which I think is brilliant because there's so much to learn. And she'll tell us more about how that happened in a little bit as well. Sabrina and I first met at the Milk and Future of Health Conference in late 2025. And after hearing her speak on a panel at the kickoff meeting for the Women's Health Network led by Dr. Jill Biden, which were both part of that network. Pause for effect for a minute. I was committed to becoming friends. And I don't think she knew that at the time, but by the end of the day, when we ended up at drinks later, I had succeeded in becoming friends with Sabrina. So I mission accomplished, it was great. So I'm so excited that you're here and that you're on the pod and you're bringing all of your wealth of knowledge to the community. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Oh my gosh, it's such a pleasure and what a uh such a kind introduction. So I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

I I love to do it because, like I said, we don't get to talk about things out loud enough. So we may as well. So for everyone listening, add anything in on the introduction that is important for you and tell us a little bit more about the company.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah, for sure. And and thank you for noting. Yes, it's a it's a publicly traded company. And I think what's also really striking about that is I believe we are the only publicly traded company on any exchange that is working solely yet broadly in women's health. And so what that means is, you know, I started the company in 2015, so 10 years ago now, very much with a very straightforward premise, which was, you know, women are half the population. We have been systematically underserved in biomedical research for decades, not because there's any ill intent. It's just sort of structurally, that's what's what's happened. And so conditions that only affect women or affect women differently, or, you know, affect women more frequently haven't been studied as much as other conditions, right? Really for decades. And so I started the company very much with this vision of changing that and building a pipeline of products, as you noted in the introduction, where we think of ourselves as purpose-driven and really with a very clear mandate of closing the gap between promising science and where we have the science, and a real-world solution that a woman can actually use. And so we and we do work broadly. So I always tell people contraception to menopause and everything in between. So sexual health, maternal health, you know, fertility, vaginal health. We like to think of it as everything that a woman might experience, and and specifically focusing on where there's gap. And you also touched on this in the introduction that, you know, and I'll state it just a different way, which is I very much started the company with a conviction that women deserve, and conditions affecting women deserve the same urgency for sure, the same investment, and also the same scientific rigor as we apply to other areas. And I think sometimes that gets lost a little bit because as women, we are fantastic healthcare consumers. We want to take care of ourselves. We do that, right? We will find products. And I think sometimes because we are so motivated, it can make it easy to think that maybe we don't need the same scientific rigor, but we do. It sounds like a small ask.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

But right, it shouldn't be hard to get to the same scientific rigor. Uh, it's certainly possible. It could be the same data sets. It's probably brand new data sets. We maybe haven't looked at things through the lens of sex-based differences properly before or at all. Uh I've heard stories just yesterday at a conference I was at that there are products sitting on shelves that haven't been monetized or commercialized simply because they haven't proven a value stored for it. But in the data, it does show that it could be more effective for women, but they haven't commercialized it that way for whatever reason. And it blows my mind because you go, there's revenue.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

It's like sitting on sitting. And that was really, you know, I I started Dare because yes, it's a moral imperative, but it is strategically sound. There's money to be made, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:29

And I and I don't understand why the limiting thoughts affect revenue when you like and the because the other hurdle, right, is that I I think also the we get overlooked because we're also being the largest consumer of healthcare is often also in the name of our families, it's for our kids or our parents or our partners. And so we're out paying for healthcare all the time, but it's often not for ourselves, it's for everyone around us. But it's absolutely right. That distinction isn't always clear. And so it's like, oh no, but they're women are out doing healthcare all the time. I don't know. It's it's for my kids' coolness. Or, you know, it's it's not for my odd flashes. That's not what's happening. Yeah. Exactly. Goodness. So the mission of the podcast, as you know, has been to dig into the fundraising stories of women who are building businesses in this ecosystem because I get all kinds of inbound from women all the time, 10 o'clock on Sunday night, some raging mad text about some crazy conversation. Uh and so I decided we had to start talking about these things out loud. And and yes, for the learning value and some of the entertainment value, but but also for the validation that these things are happening and also for the learning that comes from them and the things that we can share amongst you know the the coven to make sure that we're all walking into rooms with some level of prep. So I would love to start with if you could describe your fundraising experience in in three words. What three words would you use?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Definitely relentless for sure. But but also very revealing and worth it. I guess that's four words, but and okay. No, that's great. Tell us tell us a little bit more. Yeah, so relentless, because I think this is something any entrepreneur, most entrepreneurs and CE CEOs or people fundraising will tell you that you know, you you simply you can't stop. I I almost feel like there's never an end, right? If even if there were an end, I don't even know how I would know that it was an end, right? Because you always have more you can be doing. So I feel like relentless because you're always you're always doing it. Revealing because, you know, I I've seen the fundraising process as a way of exposing biases. Oh, really? No kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And and and not just like the not even some of the obvious biases, but even I, you know, I think is so interesting with a lot of the work that we do at DARA, we are working to address conditions that are not life-threatening, right? They're life-altering. You gave a perfect example, hot flashes, right? Hot flashes are not life-threatening, but they're very much life-altering. So I think it's also revealing in biases around what matters in high in healthcare.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

So, so definitely biases, gender biases, uh, you know, all of those biases 100% also, but also just our philosophy around healthcare and what matters in healthcare and what are we really solving for and what deserves investment, right? Right. Versus what maybe doesn't deserve in investment. So I think it's, you know, when I take a step back, and I'm not just thinking about my work raising money, but I kind of take a step back and think about what it says and how it's shifting. I think it's really interesting. And I do think it's shifting, like in the revealing this, I think it's shifting because we are seeing people investing in and consumers saying, I want this for products that might have been considered more lifestyle before, right? But they're saying it's it's worth it and I want it. And a great example, frankly, is GLP ones. And I keep telling everyone, GLP ones, that's women's health. Those are primarily women.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

It could change the entire investment platform for women's health. Yes. Dramatically. Yes. Yeah. It opens the door in a way. That's like a different podcast, but it it it changes. It could change dramatically. So if you think back to early fundraising experiences, maybe at one of your past companies versus at Dare, what what have been your observations around what the experience was like and and how you came into it here?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yes. And I would definitely lean into again that that concept of of revealing and you know, uh again, what gets funded and what's easy to fund versus what doesn't. So when I was at Cypress Bioscience, one of the products that we worked on was for a pain condition called fibromyalgia. And I found that to be so easy to fundraise around because everyone's experienced pain. Everyone has experienced pain that maybe you weren't exactly sure why it was happening or how to make it go away. Right. And so it was so relatable. It was so relatable that those conversations tended to be so easy in a way, right? I I wasn't having to explain that baseline of like, what is pain and why does pain matter? Right. Then you're just talking about what is the science around that particular solution, right? What is the market? What is the MME need? And what is the science around that and that solution? And so when it comes to conditions that are not life-threatening, what I found to be very interesting about the experience is that when it's a non-life-threatening condition, pain, where it is very, very relatable, that is very different than, again, a non-life-threatening condition that is not relatable, right? So when I'm working in women's health and I'm sitting across the table from someone, right, who has never had to make a choice really about a contraceptive or menopause, right? These are not lived experiences for them. And they're also not life-threatening, right? You don't expect an investor who's going to invest in a cancer product, right? You would never expect them to have cancer or need to have cancer to understand that, because that's such a, you know, it we all understand it. We all know the devastation and how important it can be to solve that. But it was very eye-opening, the difference between pitching to someone about something, again, that was similarly not life-threatening, but that was so understandable and relatable versus something where they didn't have that lived experience. And I think, you know, it also did help uh reveal a little bit that bias around okay, what what is important versus what's not important, and also I think individual motivation around who wants to learn.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

I was going to ask, a desire and an ability to learn feeds in there as well, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah. And and the and you see, and and you know, investors are humans. I always say two people at the FDA are humans, right? And investors are humans. And so it's not surprising that just like people in your life, some people love a challenge and love to be contrarian and want to dig in, right? Where others are leaning out, they want to lean in. And then they're the people that just say, I don't get it, I don't know it, and I don't think I have it in me to do the work.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

How did you work around that? What was your what did your strategy become to get past some of those barriers? It's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

I I think in initially, quite frankly, I probably did not do all the right things to get around it. Because your human nature, like I'm talking to someone about a contraceptive, and to me it seems so obvious why this is like groundbreaking and so amazing and why they should be so excited about this. And I'm getting this like blank stare and just not getting it. And you know, your initial, my initial, I should say, my initial reaction was, ha, this is because it's about women's health, or this is about it's, you know, it's because it's a contraceptive. And as opposed to what I ultimately did, right, is take a step back and kind of to your question, how can I make this relatable? And then you start to think, okay, well, you know, everyone's you know, if I'm talking to a guy, probably every guy is at some point dealt with a condom. Right, right, right. Let's let's talk about contraception in a framing, right? What what does it mean, right? What is a convenient contraceptive versus a non-convenient contraceptive? What what matters in terms of whether it works or not, how it's going to get utilized? So just trying to turn it into again a relatable conversation to just linking it back to something that maybe they they have uh experienced so that then we can get to the real important discussion, which is you know, the why and the opportunity and you know, why this particular solution and what is the market for that, and what is our pathway right to to unlocking that economic return. Yeah. But it is, it it takes, you know, it does take kind of taking a step back. And and then there are some things where you just can't make it directly relatable. Menopause hot flashes are a good example. But what you can do is turn the conversation into something bigger than that around longevity, right? And things that anyone can sort of relate to. Well, here's why, you know, hot flashes are just a symptom of something that's happening when the hormones are depleted, that actually is a much bigger conversation because those hormones getting depleted, that's one symptom, but it's, you know, it's brain health, it's cardiovascular health, it's bone health. And, you know, you can solve a lot by solving one thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, it's so interesting. We, you and I have a common friend who, when she talks to men about menopause, and the way she gets them to care about it is that it her libido is gonna go way, way down. And so if if you want, if you want your sex life to continue, you need to care about menopause. Although it's it's not, and so you this is your reason to care and to ask your wife how she's feeling and to worry about her hot flashes. Because that's gonna take over. Yeah, that's easy. Yes, and you make it relatable because exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

And I have a funny story along those lines. I was um one of our products that that we have in our portfolio is for arousal uh in in women. Yes, yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. Yeah, yes, yeah, and Dare to Play uh is the name of the product Dare to Play Sidenfo Cream. And when I was, I always remember this conversation. I was talking to, it was a man across the table about this product for for women. And often I'll give the example of erectile dysfunction in men because this the active in this is the same active as in Viagra, and it's really designed to increase blood flow and why that's important. But he looked at me and asked, I don't get it. So why do women need to be aroused? And I was like, uh, you know, after I kind of I need a little bit of a face that it means to you, but I was like, what? And I said, no, try, you know, I said, are you are you partnered? Are you married? And he's like, yeah, I'm married. I was like, okay, trust me. So does she just walk around aroused always? Trust me, it's a good thing when someone is aroused. But yeah, it's the same thing. It's like, no, that's it's you you want your partner to be aroused. Um, it's a positive.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Did he get it when you when you walked?

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Ultimately, then when I really walked him through, I think part of it was like not understanding what it was. And then I, you know, I explained, look, in women, the blood flow, right? In men, you're gonna get erection, it's what allows an erection to happen. In women, actually, it's it's what allows the pleasurable sensations to happen, and also the lubrication, which is important for everyone. So, you know, once I had to do a little biology lesson, he got it. But at first, he was sort of like, wait, why does that matter?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

There's there's always a biology lesson, is what we've learned in this space. Yes, yes, yes. So take us, take us through the reverse merger and uh and the the progression to that decision, and then you know, why did why did that become the option? Why was it strategic for the company, how you got it executed, etc.? Because that I think that that learning for everyone listening could be it's a great great experience, great story.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

There's so much in there. There's so much in there, and I think there's also so much in there in the the just fundraising in general and kind of the tenacity and right the the relentlessness you have to have to it. So when I had the idea to to start Dare, it was always exactly what we're doing today, which to give you a little more perspective on the on the portfolio and then why the reverse merger made sense and how we got there, the the vision was always to build a company that would start first with what are the biggest gaps in healthcare for women? Where can we match good science to that kind of target product profile to address that gap and advance that product? And so the company was always built around philosophy of most of what we're going to be doing is not gonna be invented here. It's not a company built on one technology or one invention, right? It was built on, oh, you know what'd be great is to have a hormone-free contraceptive that's once a month. And you know what'd be great is to address arousal in women. It's just as prevalent as erectile dysfunction in men, but no one's doing it, but we know how, right? So that was the concept. So when we started pitching to venture capitalists, because I started the company as a private company, like anyone does, right? Just a Delaware C Corp and out we go, talking to investors and talking to venture capitalists. And when we started talking about what the vision was for the company, what we discovered is we had two enormous hurdles to overcome. One was just the women's health thing, right? Right. Right. If if I get a dollar for every investor who said to me, Well, who else is investing in women's health? Is anyone else investing in women's health?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

It's so niche, Sabrina. I don't understand. It's so niche. It's half the population.

unknown 20:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

So, so what I found is one, you know, not only did we have to get over that hurdle of, you know, at the time, 2015, which is 10 years ago now, not having as many companies working in women's health as there are now, not having as much of a buzz around it, right? When we were doing it. So not only do we have to overcome that hurdle, but also the business model that we were pitching for Dare, it's not your traditional venture capital business model, right? Where they're betting on one thing, right? I've invented this new chemical entity that's going to solve this, or I'm only doing, you know, this product for menopause. That's it, right? That's that's what we're doing. It was this roll-up. So it took a year of pitching, and I call it my three times of getting uh jilted at the altar. So three different times. I thought we were at the finish line. I thought I was about to get married to, you know, this fund that was like leading an investment. And you know, we had been discussing the terms, and I thought we were there. And then three times in a row, quite literally, it would blow up at the 11th album.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Holy moly! Like term sheet. fell down at the last minute three times. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah. And and each time was sort of one of the limited partners kind of kind of being like, wait, are we really going to do this women's health thing? Like there was always someone, obviously not our internal champion, right? I always had kind of the internal champions, not them, obviously, but but in the end, just couldn't get it across, you know, couldn't get it across the finish line. And so after that happened three times, and you know, all the work and the diligence that goes in, all the time that you're spending.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Absolutely. Yeah. When while you're not running the company or growing, you're stuck in fundraising. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

So so we done this for a year and my background is all publicly traded companies. My my real first like real foray into private companies was Dare, you know, private Dare, founding Dare. So after a year of this, I I just said, okay, I clearly am not understanding how to get one of these venture deals closed. But I do know how the public markets work. Right. Yeah. I do know how that operates. And it's not always pretty and it can be challenging, but I understand it. Yeah, you can lean into some expertise, right? Exactly. Yeah. And so I, but I knew we were not going to be able to IPO on the 800, you know, with the basis of $800,000 in seed funding that we had raised at that point. Not going to go do a big public offering. So I started with my co-founders, we started looking for public shells. And what I mean that's ever whenever I tell people that and I say we did a reverse merger, there they say, oh, like a SPAC. It's not like a SPAC.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Not a SPAC. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Not a SPAC. What it is is in biotech, as we all know, there are distress companies all the time, right? Companies that maybe were the biggest and the brightest and had the most exciting promising science that then fails in clinical trial because most drugs fail actually. So we started looking for companies that had a clinical failure, which sounds terrible. But we started looking for companies that had clinical failure and we started telling every everyone in my network, anyone who would listen to me, I would say, I want to find a reverse merger. I want to merge into a public shell. So what that means is what we ultimately found it and that also took three tries. So I always feel like the reverse merger was like my positive third try was a win versus my three times jilted at the altar on the VC funding. But it took three tries and we ultimately would find a company that had some failure. So the one we ultimately merged into was a company called Cerulean. They were in the oncology space they had had kind of two back-to-back phase two trials fail. And really their investors didn't have an appetite to try to do more. They were publicly listed and they ended up having to go through what I refer to as a beauty contest where then they try to figure out what to do because they have this public shell. And in our case they were likely going to be left with about $10 million. And so they run a process and in our case we were the 95th company they looked at but they will go out their board of directors will give them a mandate to go figure out what to do. And the options are either return the money to the shareholders that's left, right? You're going to wind down or find something that you think can be more creative to the shareholders than just winding down and returning the funds to bring into the company. And so what they look at it's actually it's like magic finding the two pieces that can go together because what they're actually trying to solve for is there a private company out there that has something promising and exciting and where they can get to a value inflection ideally with just the money that's left in the shell because then they can tell a very nice story in a good way to their shareholders that hey, we're going to bring in in this case Dara Bioscience and guess what? They have this contraceptive that's getting ready for a phase two and they can get you to that phase two readout with the 10 million that's already here. So they're going to get you to the next value driver right yeah with just the money that's here.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

And uh and so that was the the kitchen they have fusions of cash the money's here this is what they need and it gets them past the line on their next step and makes my conviction that it can be successful.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah. So we were the you know we were the 95th thing they looked at but it was a perfect match because for 10 million we had this grant funding as well for the phase two trial for it's a contraceptive that's now in phase three oviprene. But we could do that and we could we could with a very much a straight face say yep we can get there you know with it with the 10 million and so that's what happens. So what happens when you do averse merger so we become the controlling entity so you keep the shell you keep the NASDAQ listing and you just change the name and the ticker symbol and ticker symbols dare it happened to be available. We thought there's no way DARE is going to be available but it was and so and and so that happened in so to give you a timeline I started the company in 2015 May of 2015 we did all the venture shenanigans until summer of 16 and it was I always remember it was August of of 2016 where I was just kind of like I can't do this anymore. I got you know insanity is like hitting your head against the wall and doing the same thing over and over again. So we got to try that to to go public. And it took us it was February of 2017 when we identified this opportunity and we closed in July of 2017.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Oh wow oh my goodness that's incredible yeah crazy congratulations it's wild it's incredible and and I mean it really leaned into your past experience and understanding public markets so well to be able to navigate that.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

100% I would have never been able to do it had I not been a public company CFO for as long as I had and and and interestingly also my experience at Cyprus we had we had almost become a public shell at one point because we had divested I think that's also how I really understood this we had divested our we I launched a successful commercial product there that we ultimately sold but it was our only asset. So we were kind of this public shell at Cyprus sure yeah and all of our investors kind of like once we sold that asset they sort of went and we were left with this public shell. And in that case we had an internal kind of we had found ourselves the program to bring in so we didn't like it wasn't literally reverse merger but I'd gone through the process of being this you know all your fundamental shareholders leave like when that's happening right all the fundamental shareholders leave and you have this shell where you're really a retail stock. So I had navigated that at Cyprus so I also felt comfortable being in the world and we're still kind of in that at DARI where we're really heavily retail held. It's a very different kind of public model than being heavily held by institutions.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah yeah because you know every biotech founder that's listening right now is like oh my I should go do that because it's so hard to find that it is it is but you definitely I mean being publicly traded is not for the fainted heart I always say it comes with other hurdles right it has its own baggage. Yeah and so when you were in negotiations with the the company that you reversed merged into did you run into many of the same stigma related reactions or misunderstandings around women's health? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Was it any easier to navigate or it was easier to navigate because they gave it more time right they were very motivated. So unlike so if you think about the mindset right of of of an investor an investor is making is going to sometimes very quickly right need to make and it make decisions around where to spend time right so they can make decisions around where to deploy their capital. And and and they're thinking about all the other things that they already know about where there are tons of opportunities and spaces they already know about where they could deploy capital versus learning a new thing. Whereas in the case of this reverse merger, you know, we were the 95th thing they had looked at at that point there's a lot of motivation on their top on this motivated just sit down and say okay let's understand this right let's really understand the opportunity because they were getting to up you know at some point you have to then kind of say oh we can't find anything we need to return the money to shareholders so they were very motivated throughout their process I mean that's why they looked at 95 right 95 opportunities to find what they believed to be the best fit for their shareholders. So but the but we started at the same starting place of wait what what are you working on? And and why does why does what's the big deal about a non-hormonal once a month contraceptive because that was the product we were leading the process with at that time it was our product Iberpreme which is a once a month non hormonal contraceptive. And you know so a lot of those conversations and then we had the ideas like we already had the concept of what is now dear to play sedentifo cream that our next thing was going to be an arousal right so you know we're trying to explain what happens you know why why why is there a need for a new contraceptive when there were so many and the pillows been around since 1960. Right. So we had to have that conversation and and then we had to have the conversation about well what are you what's coming in next yeah what would be the next things so it definitely was all the same education conversations but it was with an audience that was willing to take the time to learn. Yeah which makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

And so now you have the Reg Afering open right and so tell us about the philosophy behind that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

So if you take a step back now and and talk big picture about what's happening in in women's health and we started this conversation today talking about why I started DARA right was to fill these gaps and and part of what's happening is is is structural right only about 1% of private healthcare investment goes into companies like Dara that are only focused on conditions that solely affect women right so only 1% of those dollars are going to there and as a public company when we do a public offering so anyone can buy our shares which is fantastic for them right if if there's a return and upside right but but to have money come into the company for for us to further our work and our mission the the only way to do that is to issue more shares. And typically when you do a public offering the only people that can participate in the public offering are institutions. Institutions right or large accredited investors yeah hedge funds and the like yeah yes and that's that's the the one you know they're only putting 1% so so in a traditional public offering it doesn't really create an opportunity for the people who really understand the need who really want to have an opportunity to participate and make a difference to participate in that. And so there's a type of offering you can do which is a regulation A public offering that allows you to open it up literally to the public there's there's really no more public offering than this. It's so open to the public and what you do is you you work with the Securities and exchange commission. So it's filed with the securities and exchange commission in our case we also had we work with NASDAQ to make sure that we were structuring this in a way that you know worked for for all the rules and the regulations but what it does is it creates it's a public offering that you can set one, you don't have to be an accredit you can set the dollar amounts much lower for that minimum investment. So in the case of our regulation A offering that minimum investment is $250 and and now it can go as high as when you register with the SEC, you you have to say sort of the maximum that you're going to raise under this offering and it's $25 million and it stays open for a year. So it's it's there, right? There's it's not like time limited like oh gosh you got to go do it tomorrow. Right. And and the idea for us was we really wanted to democratize access to something like this. So first of all, because it's not a donation so to be clear it is a speculative biotech investment. Right. Right yes we're getting securities uh in DARE. But we wanted to really create something that kind of democratized access to that right it's it's normally it's it's hard for us to become owners in something like this that we might that actually really directly affects us in something we use right yeah exactly exactly oh that's great so yes so anyone can do it you can go to the website it's it's right on just our Dare Bioscience which is like Dare Bioscience websites right on the homepage you can go and and all of the documents are there where you can learn more all the things we filed it's called the offering circular yeah with the SEC it's all there and and it's it's really straightforward the process is very straightforward on how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

It's it's really like I said it's a nice way to kind of democratize the opportunity no it really opens up access to to the people who use the product more than anything right that who may not otherwise we're not women are not in hedge funds the way we should be right we're gonna get there but we're not yet but this gives everyone a way to participate in in a company that's actually building for them in a in a way that you may not in on publicly traded markets in a way that we may not otherwise be able to so that's exactly right and I love what you said like we we were really excited about especially the timing of as we're launching Dere to play and we're launching we're about to also launch a vaginal probiotic flora sink the dare to restore line we also love this this opportunity to to do these at the same time so that coming to your point right the people that love the products can become owners in the company it's great. Yeah I love it. We're gonna hit hit kind of the last round of questions here but as as you as you look at venture now and you're there's a lot more women building now there's a lot more women writing checks now which is which is all great. There are stigma related problems that persist we're working on it but it's not all better yet. But from your perspective does it seem like things are changing do you feel like the system's getting better like what's what's your reaction to how venture works now?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Yeah I I do think things are definitely getting better on on all fronts quite frankly in terms of you know women in leadership roles at funds right as well we're seeing more of that women in leadership roles pitching to the funds and I think and specifically in the world I navigate in in terms of women's health I definitely also see more willingness to write name the conditions talk about it a little more you know understanding also just structurally what's been wrong with the system around where investment has been going. So I do I am optimistic that we're we are going in the right direction. Yeah right in terms of representation and then what that means in terms of getting more money right because what it's really going to take is money more money going into the system that's going to generate more evidence that's going to in turn generate more money going in. Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Yeah and and more money in in a women's hands to exactly capital in bigger ways towards opportunity spaces that matter to us. Right. And and that that's the big lever that I I want to keep pushing on is how do we get 100% how do we get women I love love philanthropy but I need the kind of energy that goes into philanthropy to also show up in equity from women in particular right and that's another going right back to the reggae offering right the regulation A offering do you remember that's another reason to do it right to your to your point you made earlier in terms of women are often right they're they're not making investments they're not doing that and and to your point we need more representation right it women in positions where the capital allocation decisions are being made yeah right whether that's their own capital or at venture firms or in pharma or you know on boards of directors all of that right all of that makes a difference. Oh yeah I I have said in a few rooms over the last year I'm like could you imagine what the world would look like if women had troves of private capital just oh my gosh what it would look like. And let's go do that. That's the reason right let's go there if you had three or four like must-know tips for women that are fundraising right now or launching into fundraising soon, what do they have to think about? What the what should they definitely plan for, do have in mind?

SPEAKER_00 39:25

I think definitely in biotech in particular, I I realize people may be fundraising in all kinds of areas, but in biotech in particular, you know, leading with the patient and the patient story I I think sometimes our instinct is to start with like the total addressable market and you know or the compound right this is what I invented or this is you know my data but going back to the why right starting with the why and making it relatable right going back to the the fact that investors are humans right creating a connection and starting out with how you can create that connection and make it relatable right which is why I say kind of lead with the with the the patient. You know know your why know your objective when you're going into a conversation which sounds so obvious but I also see it when I'm on the receiving end when when companies are coming to Dare with their ideas because they're hopeful that we'll bring it into our portfolio. And I always give this feedback there's so many times when come someone will come to me and they haven't done the work to know like what else is in our portfolio or done the work to think about how to present what they're doing in a way that is going to make it compelling for us. Right. So it's kind of no go and know what you're doing the work know what you're asking for. It's kind of inexcusable to to not do that.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Right. Yeah no it's sales 101 right you have you have to have made it match what the other person is also looking for.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Always exactly yeah yeah so those are my two biggies and don't you know don't give up the tenacity like it's worth it right you have to be it's not easy. It's not easy.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yeah so it's a tough it's a tough space to be in lately it's not getting easier so it it really takes some tenacity and and real commitment creativity going and create creativity is the is the word of the year I think right or maybe the last two years.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah and I have to grab a ring with grit on it. It's like grit creativity.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Yeah oh absolutely yeah those are the words what can everyone listening do for you what what does Dare need right now? What's your ask?

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Oh my gosh well definitely please go check out our website Dear Bioscience is the website address uh to look at the regulation I offering because that is something that if that what we're doing resonates, you know, putting real dollars behind it and the and what that signals it's bigger than us, right? It's it's really around what matters. So that's great. Please check it out. The other is we are launching our arousal uh cream a first of its kind arousal cream for women dare to play so I would love for people to check that out too it it's a bad time. I feel like we're you know 20 years to 30 years overdue Medicad Viagra in their medicine cabinets for you know since 1998 uh it's a bad time so so definitely check that out that website is daretoplaybio.com so check that out so it's in what we call pre-fulfillment prescription phase okay which is basically prescriptions can come in and actually telehealth is complimentary right now which is normally $30 and there's a 25% off on your whole prescription if you get it now. But yeah because it's really a win-win it it allows us to understand behaviors and and you know where prescriptions are coming from so that the party that we've partnered with to make this happen, there's a whole story around that but the um the company that we partnered with to make this happen it just allows them to plan manufacturing and licensing and all those things that we want to make it worthwhile for everyone. So yeah it's a great time to check it out.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Okay great amazing well thank you Sabrina for joining me for sharing so much insight and for really bringing a a really quite different experience to to everything we've taught and like really compelling and interesting because it's not one we get to hear very often. So I I really appreciate it. Oh it's been so much fun. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Capital Flex if today's episode hit home share it with the founder you love and follow me on LinkedIn for more