S2EP7: Women Have No Protection In This Ecosystem with Sarah Kraft

The most dangerous part of fundraising is not the bad term sheet. It’s the room.

And when you’re early-stage, with no HR, no legal shield, and no institutional backup, the only protection is you.

In this episode of The Capital Flex, I talk with Sarah Kraft, founder and CEO of Koil AI, a platform helping teens figure out who they want to be and how to get there. Sarah, a world champion sailor with 11 years of operations and growth experience scaling consumer and B2B2C startups from zero to $1M+ ARR, has grown Koil to more than 440,000 users and is actively raising her seed round.

We get into the ugly reality of early-stage fundraising: why women founders are the most exposed people in the room, what it costs to hold a hard boundary, the fawn response,  and what a real vetting framework looks like in practice. 

And we say out loud what many founders wish we wouldn’t: success doesn’t equal credibility in this ecosystem. For all the talk of open doors and equal opportunity, many women are still penalized for every single win.

Key Takeaways:

• Women founders walk into investor conversations with no protection. That gap is structural, not personal.
• The fawn response is real. Women comply to stay safe rather than enforce a boundary. We have to call it out to start interrupting it.
• Bad behavior in the room gets a pass. The woman who calls it out? Not so much. And that’s not an accident.
• A personal vetting framework (daylight meetings, public spaces, limited duration, no alcohol) is not overcautious. It is a necessary infrastructure.
• Cross-gender allies exist and matter. The best ones listen, say what they see, and get you in the room without asking you to make yourself smaller. 

My Reflection

We tell women to earn their way in. Build the traction. Prove the model. Sarah did all of it, but the momentum still didn’t keep her safe. It just altered what she was up against.

This is the pre-pitch advice nobody gives you. A strong idea and solid traction should be enough, but for women, the pitch is never just the pitch. Women walk in selling a company. The people in the room decide whether they like her before they decide if they like the business. The idea was never the only thing on trial.

The framework Sarah built to protect herself is just as strategic as the company she’s scaling. Every safeguard is necessary. And the system that created that necessity isn’t interested in fixing any of it.

This Week's Challenge:

Before your next round, take stock:

1. Set your boundaries before the next meeting: time of day, duration, and setting. Write them down and stick to them.
2. Find one person in your network who has met with your target investor. You want intel on how they treat founders, not just whether they write checks.
3. Notice the moment you’re about to override your gut. That’s scarcity talking. Stop for a moment and name what you’re agreeing to.

Capital is not just money. It’s a long-term relationship. Choose wisely.

Links and Resources: 

https://koil.life/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kraftsarah/ 

https://www.instagram.com/koil.life/ 

https://thecapitalflexpodcast.buzzsprout.com/ 

If you enjoyed this conversation, follow The Capital Flex, leave a rating, and share this episode with a founder who needs it.

And if you’re looking for a more candid space to talk fundraising, power, and building inside systems not designed for you, stay close. The conversation continues.

Production and Administration work completed by Smart Podcast Solutions and Elevate Business Solutions. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

This is the Capital Flex. I'm the same Saini. This joke codifies the Capital Playbook because no founder should have to learn the hard way. We talk about what really happens behind closed doors. The bias, the breakthroughs, and the things no one says out loud. If you've ever walked into a room and felt the system wasn't built for you, you're in the right place. Hello and welcome to the Capital Flex. My guest today is Sarah Kraft, the CEO and founder of COIL, a platform for AI career guidance for teens and later all working people around the world. COIL gives them personalized, trusted, relevant answers that meet them at each stage of life, helping them figure out who they want to be when they grow up and how to get there and how to adapt. They have over 440,000 users now, an engaged audience, and are now raising their seed around. So it's very exciting times to be fundraising these days. So I met Sarah, I think about a year ago, and we've been talking and sharing stories ever since. I've been fascinated by Sarah's experience as she's been a founding member of multiple consumer startups, helping them scale from zero to a million more in ARR and has 11 years of operations and growth experience for CPG and B2B2C software startups. And a fun fact, she's also a world champion sailor, which I think is a great fun fact. So thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to have you on the pod.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Yeah, no, absolutely happy to be here and very glad we met. This is gonna be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Fun is the right word, yes. Uh so for everyone listening, can you introduce yourself a little bit more and tell us more about your company?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah, I mean, thanks. Yeah, thanks so much for having me again. Such such a pleasure to be here and talking about a topic that I think a lot of us here on the podcast can can relate to, both speakers and listeners. I'm a world champion sailor and I approach building companies with the mindset of an athlete, kind of always have, and I just absolutely love what I do. I build with my heart and my mind and my soul. And so yeah, I also love a good challenge. So what we're talking about today uh doesn't leave me faint of faint of heart, but just sort of ready to figure out what the solutions are for me, what the solutions are maybe for all of us, and figure out how we can have some fun along the way.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Oh, yeah, absolutely. The foundation of the podcast, as you know, is to dig into and and elevate really the fundraising experiences of female founders because we know that while sometimes they're fun and great, more often than not, there's some real hurdles and painful experiences that come with being a woman in VC, let alone fundraising as a woman in VC. And so what I wanted to do was really talk about these things out loud, share the stories and more so share the learnings and the insights so that everyone after us has a toolkit and an understanding of what this all feels like and what happens. So it doesn't feel like it's happening for the first time or feel like it's personal, because that's often how it can feel when we're going through it. So, to kick us off, if you could describe your fundraising experience in three words, what three words will you use?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Well, the odds are typically working against us, just in general for founders, but specifically for women. I think we all know the stats on that one. So volume. Volume would be my first word. Fill up the sales funnel as much as you can and just don't overthink it. Just fill it up, fill it up, fill it up, and trust that you will get there. You'll find your way. And then that kind of parlays into the next word that comes to mind, which is just determination. You have to drown out the noise. You have to be so it's crazy. You have to be so aware of what is going on. You have to be aware of possibly some of that maybe unfairness that you may pick up on, you know, along the way, but you have to be determined, you have to be able to drown it out. And then finally, results. Just, and I've heard this from a number of successful founders. They're like, call us crazy, but as you raise, just try to find a way to deliver results, like be scrappy, figure it out, just try. And I think that I I heard that on a panel maybe two years ago now, and I thought, well, yeah, of course. But I think the mindset shift was really important for me. Like results ultimately really drive the conversation and show, like, you know, showcase more of your own mettle as a founder and your own grit. And I think, especially with the conversation we're about to have today, it's particularly relevant. Show that, show that you you've got what it takes to do what you said you were going to do.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Right. Amidst the chaos, right? Keep delivering on the results, right? So I know you've had a a number of wild experiences. So where where would you like to start? Where would you like to take us first?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I think maybe just the one that really kicked off my career and a lot of my early learnings or further context on my career path. I've spent basically all of my career, oddly enough, within entrepreneurship as a partner or as kind of a founding member. Again, I approached building companies like with the mindset of an athlete and just being like, how can I, if 90% of companies fail, how can I be the one that doesn't? And how can I just take time to learn first? And in that sort of journey, I came across a number of characters where I was just a bit ignorant and innocent and whatnot, but I was put into some, you know, physically sort of sketchy situations, whether it was being invited out to eat dinner, what I thought was sort of an innocent meal that turns out was not so innocent. Very much tried to push his own agenda. I'm at the end of the dinner. It was hard to escape. I've had other situations where I've been invited to social gatherings and it's under the guise of being something that's very above-board and acceptable. I've brought business partners to some of these, this social gathering I'm thinking of in particular. And we brought even two of our friends and, you know, just to get to know this potential investor and yada yada. But what seemed very benign turned out to be something that was very threatening, and I was sort of pulled to the side and a lot of inappropriate words were said. And so I mean, I'm just like, I it's the tip of I I just I have so many stories that kind of hit this particular category, but they happened kind of earlier on in my career. And so, like, I guess I've just I've just kind of had to learn the hard way in a lot of ways. And sometimes it's really hard to do in entrepreneurship and in the startup space. If if you're say a founder with not a lot of people around you yet, you're you have no protection, basically. You have no protective layer of a corporation, you have no HR department, you have no, you may not even have a lawyer yet. Like you have nothing. And so it's very, very easy for anybody to be taken advantage of. But as a woman, it's like you can end up in those physically sketchy situations very, very easily. And so a lot of I think what I learned was learning how to pick up on cues, learning how to see like the people who are really good at sort of being the most nefarious are also sometimes the most, there's sometimes also the harder, the hardest to pick up on. But eventually what I learned was like I had just really learned how to fine-tune that gut experience, uh, that that sort of gut based on you know that experience. So that was just something I kind of had to accept as being part of the process and to give myself grace. And I also just had to learn how to get out and set those boundaries, which was sometimes really hard because I thought they had power over me in those situations. But oftentimes I think also what I realized in in hindsight and in retrospect is the people who tended to push the boundaries as much as they did that I that I came across were also the ones who were maybe less respected. And so it wouldn't have mattered if I'd set firmer boundaries. Like it's, you know, some of you know, people in their network ha already have sometimes a negative view of them for the reasons why I got stuck in that situation in the first place. But it's hard when you don't feel like you have a lot of legs to stand on, we are an early stage company. When you need support, you know, partners like that, it's hard to say no. And it's it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Right. Well, it's it's interesting because I can imagine, and I've heard stories like this so many times, right? And so there's layers of these notions of scarcity versus versus abundance that we often find ourselves in. And so you just you don't know what's normal versus not normal because it happens so often and it gets normalized, and right, and so you go like, oh, but this is just how it works. Well, no, it's not supposed to work that way, but it can often feel like it's supposed to. Uh and then money is hard, it's hard to fundraise, it's hard to get the checks we need to build the businesses that we're building. And so you go, well, if I don't get the money here, is there another option? And we have to, I think, keep reminding ourselves that there is other money in other places, right? And so we we have to be able to exit and then have different conversations. And then the third is is picking up on those cues and knowing that like that bad actor is a bad actor. And and I don't have to deal with that behavior because other people aren't dealing with it either, right? And that it's it's coming from that person's own lack of self-esteem, inability to coordinate their own social. It's not on you, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Exactly. It's not on me, right? And so often it feels like it is, especially if they do take offense in that situation. That's their immediate defense mechanism. So learning how to tactfully leave without making them angry, but also being okay maybe with making them a little bit angry, right? For the sake of just being safe. It's definitely a hard line to play because of, like you said, there are a lot of things that we're just taught generally in society as women to do to either comply or to or to just be safe.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

To be safe, right. And the safety is a big one.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yeah. There's a fight, flight, response. There's also the fawn response, which is to do what you need to do to just not anger the the predator.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

God, it's awful. It's it's really, it's such a the convergence of like business norms with social and cultural norms in these spaces, and how you can't separate the two things. And then, and I know I've said this in other episodes, but they are allowed to offend. But if I call out the offense, I get in more trouble. And that's that's a huge problem, right? Because it's my safety at risk if I say something, but I have to accept the offense. And that that's a it's a system problem and a cultural problem, even outside of venture that we haven't yet been able to solve.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yes, it is it is still on us when you when it really comes down to it. That's exactly what it feels like, and oftentimes what ends up happening if you're too vocal.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Right. And so you've you've now built a bit of a toolkit for this, though, right? And it it is reading the room differently or reading the human differently.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

I'm just very thoughtful and methodical. I listen to my gut. That the gut is also hard to believe, though, in this instance. So, like going back to psychology, I love psychology. It's part of why I love building consumer products and startups. I'm a little bit of a nerd, but have no degree in the subject. So this is a little bit of a caveat here. But when you're in a situation that is dangerous, if you're in it for too long, your body learns to both see it to see it as normal. So there's this like, so there's so it's trying to not let that happen, but then also not letting happen the situation that can happen where you can get stuck in the pattern of experience, like seeing every single situation as potentially dangerous because your nervous system is on high alert and it can't read these situations properly. So a lot of what I've found is helpful is like you have been through a lot of situations and your nervous system is just firing on all cylinders and you think everyone is bad. Take a deep breath, breathe, and just be methodical. I just really try to like stick to the logic, what's going on, and I have like my safe spaces, you know, meeting for coffee during the day and an open space, you know, very specific parameters. I'm not necessarily saying yes to a meal very, very rarely, like an entire meal, unless maybe it's a brief lunch, or I've I've already met them. If I already like know them and I'm sure that's that's a little bit different. So once you've established trust, but I'm even then when I establish trust, I'm still I I still have certain parameters. There's usually usually no alcohol or maybe a single drink. So definitely limit that time of day is very key. And if it's later, it's like very specific. It's at a networking event. So I mean, honestly, I could probably write a list of 10 different things. It's a little bit complicated, but I also think that it's at a at a high level, just giving people less of your time as you get to know them and being in something like a coffee situation is helpful and just really getting a clear read before going to like say a networking event, even or say like a having a longer meal. But then even then, still limiting. There's always a wall, there's always a light. Right. Um, never ever assume that you can like like never embrace a full like friendship, friendship. That's where never be in like purely casual situations alone ever. That is it. There is there are no, you cannot do that no matter how much trust you have. Just period. That is actually a hard line.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

That's that's our biggest hard line, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

There's just a lot there, I guess, uh that I've learned.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Do you do you talk to other founders about people also as part of your vetting, getting feedback from other people?

SPEAKER_01 13:12

I do. I mean, you know, we all back channel. I think back channeling is a really, really important part of the process. I would say that back channeling around this topic is more difficult. I think that is actually a tricky. I would say that I definitely back channel, but I think, yeah, I just I I just I just back channel and use my gut. If someone is is very, very nefarious, of course I I want to know. But I just operate on the assumption that like anyone could possibly become nefarious given certain situations, and then just say, can I do business with this person in an appropriate situation? And can I maintain that? And if the answer is yes amongst um my network and you know, I haven't heard otherwise through some of that back channeling, then then I I'll proceed.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, I've heard I've heard from more female founders more often in the last couple of years that there's even more sharing, right? Of insights around the people everyone is meeting and and what kind of interactions are happening, that there's more openness and more active sharing on uh the good and bad apples, as they say, to maintain the circle of safety.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Oh yeah. And like if there's a hard red line, I I wanna like if someone's been truly nefarious, like I would love to know. And I even know guys who would also like to know.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Right, absolutely. No, absolutely. It's it's crossing gender lines 100%, like right? Yeah, we're making that real.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

And I I I do think that I like to take some of those experiences that I hear with a little bit of grain of salt, given what I know of like our our own psychology. Like some situations may hit some people harder than others because of their past, because of their traumas. So everyone's read is going to be a little bit different. So it's I guess it's important just to like if you do ask those questions, which I do sometimes, just to really kind of be thorough in your investigation. Because yeah, also finding if, you know, finding great investors who are a good fit for you and your business and where you're at and where they're at is it's it's like dating. You know, it's really hard to find that right timing, let alone sort of make some of these other decisions on top of it.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

How have those experiences translated into just general networking events? So networking is definitely a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

I I think I think when you're at when I'm at webinars or just purely professional panels, a lot of those tend to be, they tend to be a little bit easier to navigate. It depends on how casual the the event is. Like some some of the events that I've been to that are a bit more exclusive, you know, more of a music, chill kind of you know, experience where people are just becoming friends and meeting people in high places, those are those are some of the most difficult to navigate. So I'd say on the if it's on the sliding scale, the more casual ones are more difficult than the the the more like professional, professional ones. But the the rule is still the same in that for me, I've definitely found it hard to keep myself in the business bucket. I don't think that that's a knock on anything that I've done work-wise. I do feel quite confident in what I've done and what I've achieved and who I am as a person and yada yada. But sometimes, you know, and it's it's very hard for me to I get stuck in situations where I'll get hit on or something like that, or someone will have that intention and I won't know it, and they're kind of guising it with business and I'm unsure. So making sure that I transition from if there's anything personal to get to know you to business is key. Like learning how to make that transition from personal to business is is something that I'm honestly still really fine-tuning, especially because I've had situations where sometimes people only want to talk to me for non-business related reasons. And then when they find out that that's not my intent, they'll just straight up walk away, you know, and I'm not even sure if an engagement reading way can help, which is definitely coming soon. So, like, find more ways to waste my time, why don't you?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

And what other cues do I need to have like physically on me to even just stop the thought before they walk over, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah. And my fear is even like, would that really help? You know, I I'm not even sure if it would per se. So, you know, I guess it and which is such a bummer because in networking and these more casual events specifically, you know, connecting with people on on like a friendship on a personal level, I think is so important in building trust and relationships with people who can like especially with people who might be giving you money. You know, like if if I'm talking to a central lead investor and they're about to potentially join my board, I mean, that's they that we all jokingly call that a marriage because it is. It's a five to seven year commitment. Right. And you're in it till you sell the company or IPO or whatever is the alchemist that you've agreed on. You know, you you want to be able to really get along with this person and like them for all intents and purposes. And so yeah, navigating that aspect since so often I've found friendship equals love interest, especially with the opposite gender.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Is it exaggerated in that entrepreneurship and venture, do you think, versus other categories? Is that is that your sense?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

I I think it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier about like, so I've I've spent over 10 years now being an entrepreneur of some kind, and you just don't have the protection of a corporation, so there's that. There's no barrier, right? So I've learned to use my team as a barrier a bit. Like, you know, my team is incredible and they come, they have amazing backgrounds, and they're a lot of guys. And so it's like, well, you want to get a bad reputation? Mess with me, I dare you. So there's that. But also, yeah, I think also in entrepreneurship, also oftentimes it, you know, just it's just a thought. In our world, the the entrepreneurs who make it, right? The founders, and even the VCs too, but a lot of the founders are like the the rock stars, right? And if you make it, it's like, oh wow, you know, like you're so amazing. I I don't think of it like that. I just like to build, I just like to build a good company and make money and like I'm just ambitious and I don't care about that. But I think it almost feels like it's like the more results I deliver, it's almost like I'm something I become something to be acquired. It's a different kind of acquisition. And you know, again, the retros, you know, I don't know if hindsight will be 2020 and I'll think differently in the next 10 years, but this is just learning as we go here.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

It's it's not a feeling you want to have, right? You don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

It's like you just get thrown into this one bucket and and then it's very hard to climb out of it. I don't know how else to describe the feeling.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah. Do you find then that you have to practice like negotiation tactics or interaction? Like you're as your business grows up, right? You're going to be dealing with different rounds of fundraising, different equity situations, different discussions around preferred shares and common shares, et cetera, right? And so your ability to navigate those situations will be distinctly different than if you were a male founder. And do you imagine having to prepare differently given all of these dynamics and your experience? You'll have to, is it different coaching? Is it what like what's the plan?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

I would say that I have surrounded myself by people, multiple people, who have exited, who have done this. I'm always I'm always studying. I I'm never not studying. I'm always trying to be the best, not just because of the athlete mentality, but because I think that's just what it takes. You can't slip up. I think you you could maybe and be forgiven, but you never know when that will be forgiven. So I think assuming that it won't be is is the safest way to go about those situations. And I would say also that I have a great team that can help with those negotiations. Like one of our investors has been through over 50 exits. I have a team that's been around the block of both exiting and also being on the side of venture and private equity. So there's a lot of expertise, right? Right. I have the expertise, but I can also, if needs be, pull that person in as part of my personal arsenal to assist with negotiating if if my tactics aren't getting us the outcome that we need. And that's the thing that I think I realized. Like I had to really put my ego at the door and my pride and say, look, I'm just gonna do whatever it takes to make sure that COIL does well, that we do well, that we both do good and make a lot of money because that is absolutely what we're here to do. And then, you know, and and make make a big, a big splash with this company, and then maybe I can do things more my way the next time. But for now, I think and also I I have a great team. I have a great team that I think is is good at negotiating in this way. I'm sure I'll have more more war stories to share with you in the next couple of years. But I also just don't think I have enough perspective from like I don't think I don't think I've mentored enough people per se to be able to properly answer that, except to say that I have taken on fundraising coaches along the way. There's one in particular who adopted me through Elastic Accelerator, and he's been amazing. And so what's interesting is listening to him talk about tactics. And so we've been trying we try some of those, and he's like, I didn't even know people could say this, and like what the heck? So letting letting the guys into my lens and and watching their actions, I think that's I I would say yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Yeah, it's interesting because the there I have found it to be a c in sometimes a complete lack of awareness that some of these things even happen and because I've I've had a few of my very dear male friends listen to episodes from the podcast and they're floored. They're like, I cannot even believe that that happened. And I'm like, you need to spend more time in rooms of women who are in this ecosystem because yeah, it does happen, but they just don't, they're not aware because it's not sitting on the abundance side of the ecosystem. It's sitting over here where we're playing. And so, but I I wonder, given that you've been in entrepreneurship for as long as you have, have you seen are there parts of the system where you've seen things get better? Has it started to shift in any places where it's getting a little bit cleaner, easier, more neutral?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

I think people are trying to at least open the door more so. And I think that there is an effort to make situations at the very least kind of more safe. Like there, I feel like there's been some improvement over the past couple years. I felt generally safer, and I've also felt like doors have been opening more so. Does that necessarily mean a check is coming? I think that's the ultimate question, which is what some of these stats we've looked at really gives us the answer to, given that there's about 50% of the businesses in the US are are women run, women-owned. And such a low percent of that is given to female founders. All female teams get 2% of the venture capital money, and about I think 10 or 12% of mixed teams. So that would be mine. Male and female teams get funded by VC. So I mean, I think money talks. I think money is how we see where the power dynamic lies. And I think that it is still very uneven. And I think the stats have shifted, have decreased a little bit recently. So there's that. Um also the general feeling that I've had more recently is I have felt some regression. And that's about all I can sort of say, you know, is I I have felt I have in the past year or so started to feel less safe and more scrutinized, like I was more so at the beginning of my career. And honestly, worse in some situations. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Right, right, right. Well, some cultural norms have shifted given given the political environment. It's just the nature of how conversations have shifted, which is too bad.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

It is too bad. It is too bad. Because our feminine our femininity at the end of the day, it's like our femininity needs to be taken seriously. It is a strength, it is not a weakness. And like the more women we let through that door, the more we can show them why it is not, but it feels very power grabby at the end of the day. Right. Also, we can contribute so much more in terms of how we build companies and we can build, and also we can build amazing, profitable companies and also, you know, have very happy teams as well. Like there are you can have happier and more fulfilled teams if you have more perspectives at the table. You can find more and you better solutions. You could climb up the hill potentially faster because you have people contributing thoughts that aren't just the same as as your own. It's not just about giving someone an opportunity. This isn't a charity case. It's also just very logical and I think a great rate of way to run a business, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

It's just, it is ultimately just good business, right? And so, but we're we're kind of hitting a bit of a we're hitting a huge kind of climax and crescendo on this now, just in the world generally. And so I I want to believe that we're gonna come out of it better because the whole thing is cracking right now. Uh, we also have a massive wealth transfer happening. We have to train the financial fluency of women to make sure we activate that properly, which there's a whole group of us working on that. Uh, but that like these things all have to converge. Right. That these all have to converge in a way that you know puts us in good, strong places on the other side. But I do believe it's possible. It just all has to keep running, right? And we can't get apathetic about where we need to land on the other side. It just it's going to take some real focus. And and we talked about this when we were prepping, like this is it feels really hard all the time. But we as professional women, as business women, as women in venture, we've only been in this space for what, 10, 15 years, right? Uh maybe 18 if we count a few extra, but and it's we're pushing big rocks uphill. It's not like it worked before and suddenly broke. It has never worked for women, it's only worked that way, always. And so, yeah, we are pushing the walls and changing the, you know, changing the color of the walls and moving furniture around and making sure that we can fit other people in. And the people who already live here don't like it. And so it's it's it's jarring. Uh, so but it's we're actually trailblazing. That's that's actually what's happening. And so it feels hard. It's going to feel hard. And so, and we have to remind ourselves of the work that we're actually doing and not and not forget, right? That that that's why it feels so hard. Right. We're still going uphill.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

We are not at the top of the mountain yet. We have bought, we have made a great, we've made great progress, you know, we really have. But like we're still climbing. We're still climbing, it's still painful, and no one's pain should be diminished. Like, oh well, you know, we were at the bottom of the hill. You guys know nothing. It's like, no, no, no, no. Like we're all just sweating here, breaking our backs, trying to like keep ourselves motivated when things get really dark. Like, oh, yeah, we're pioneers. I love the way you put that.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah, but we have to get to the top of the hill, right? And then we can all like celebrate and then get to the top of the next hill. But we we've just got to get there.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

So maybe, maybe we have like base camps, you know. Maybe it's like Mount Everest and we we make it to various base camps. We make it to like 5,000 feet, 10,000 feet, we take a break, you know, and then we carry on again.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Right, right. And then we like take a breath and then keep going. It's a team effort. It's also celebrating the wins along the way, right? And we we have to keep doing that too, otherwise it's gonna we're just be exhausted the whole time. So celebrate the wins and to do it together. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Yeah, absolutely. So if you had, you know, two or three big must-nos for other female founders, things you wish you had known before you jumped in, what what would those be? What do you want the women listening to to definitely take away?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Give yourself grace throughout this process. It's it's a lot of just you're gonna face a lot of inner demons, probably, and just lean in. Please lean in because the more you figure it out, the more you can share how you learned, and then you share that with somebody else, and it's it's a wonderful ripple effect. Give yourself grace. It takes time. Lean in, lean into that process. Be okay with acknowledging biases and and making them work for you. I think that's something I've come to realize I've become more okay with more recently. Make them work for you, not against you, but at the same time, set some very firm boundaries that does not mean you do not set boundaries. But we are still, we are not at the top of the hill yet. But we're still climbing it. Also, I would say, you know, get a good therapist. I mean, I I, you know, I would say my therapist is critical. It is, it is. I've had business coaches, I still have one, I've and I've got a great therapist. And so that like support system, you know, therapist surround yourself by people who are genuinely supportive, uh, you know, from people could be people of all genders. I've I've had to slough off a lot of folks that couldn't support me in the way that it that I needed, especially as I've I've done better in in my career, unfortunately. And so yeah, just build you that support system. And maybe just one final note like advocates can come from anywhere. They may surprise you. They could, they, they could come from either side, but ultimately, you know, even if even if the advocates do come from your male counterparts, like just continue to share your experiences throughout that, blend their knowledge with yours and find your own path because yours is going to be very different from the woman next to you than the man next to you, as that man's path was different from the next man. Sort of many different ways to to get these things done and to make your way through. And it's about just finding your own path and a way to blaze that trail for us that works best for us and our brains and our businesses and our goals and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

So yeah, yeah. No, I think it's great. I mean, the the cross the social capital that has to move across the gender lines for me is always a really important point. Like I've had some of my biggest supporters have always been men. They've always been the ones banging the table to make sure that I can walk into the rooms or stand on the stages or get the podium space that I need to do whatever the things are that I want to do. So I think it's really important. If you had one or two asks for for the allies or the those people that have been most useful, or the allies at large who could otherwise be pushing, you know, the the walls further out for the women that they stand next to. What what's your guidance for them?

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Just listen. Listen and do for the just do not discount the experiences that are being shared with you. Like just make space. Make space. Please just listen. Your experiences are absolutely helpful in our journey to figure this out. But the answer is not to do it your way. It's to figure out what is the best way. It's like, like, like any training of any employee. What, what are they, who are they? What are they really good at? How can they specifically individually flourish and contribute to to whatever task it is that they are trying to accomplish? So starting off with just really genuinely listening and making space for that and and being willing to provide like honest insights, because those insights can also be very encouraging for us along the way. And if you are a you know a close ally and you're supporting someone actively, you know, getting them in the room, like you said, or being like a like a fundraising coach, like like I've had from a number of guys throughout deals in the past and also now with this business, like they've changed. And some of the best ones also would share with me, what they would notice, they would they would share with me when there was when they would notice that difference. And then if if we're just aware of those differences, then we can change the formula and and figure out what needs to adjust to get to the outcome we're we're looking for. The figuring out what the difference is isn't about complaining or making excuses. It's just understanding what the situation is different and how do we get from A to B to another. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

How can everyone listening help you? How can we all help Coil grow and expand? What's the ask?

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Well, we would like to help all working people, like you like you said at the beginning, AI power career guidance in the long run, but we are starting with the teen group. My co-founder is a teenager, felt like the system was very broken. And so here we are, over a couple hundred thousand users later, we're stoked to be to be building coil. So check us out at coil.life k o I L dot L-I-F-E. Share us with the with the teen in your life that that you care about. Um maybe they've already seen us pop up on their on their online radar. And then we're also raising a seed round. So if you or someone you know is actively investing in consumer AI or the future of workspace, please let me know, even if it's just sort of knowledge on someone who is sort of actively moving in in the space that you feel like might resonate with with what you heard with today, or or maybe not. My email is Sarah at coilsocial.app where you can find me on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Thank you so much, Sarah, for joining and for bringing your experiences and your reflections and so much insight given your years in the space to the podcast. I think it'll be so valuable for everyone who's listening. So thank you for being here. Thanks for listening to the Capital Flex. If today's episode hit home, share it with the founder you love and follow me on LinkedIn for more.