S2EP4: That's a Check I'm Not Willing To Take with Marissa Fayer

She had nine commercial partners, FDA clearance, and a 25-year medtech track record. Still an investor stopped her mid-pitch to ask whether breast cancer was “still a thing.”

In this episode of The Capital Flex, I sit down with Marissa Fayer, engineer, operator, and CEO of Deep Look Medical, an FDA-cleared imaging software company helping radiologists visualize soft tumors in dense tissue with a single click.

Marissa shares what it looked like to raise capital through one of the toughest fundraising markets in decades while building in women’s health and medical imaging. She opens up about the investor who asked what her husband does, the pitch room that stayed silent after a dismissive question about breast cancer, and why she walked away from money she needed because the room told her everything she needed to know.

The conversation digs into fundamental mismatches in women’s health, why medtech  companies often struggle to fit venture mandates, and the difference between raising money strategically versus raising for ego. Marissa also shares lessons from a costly infrastructure decision, how pedigree hires can fail early-stage companies, and why women’s health founders need to stop speaking only inside women’s health echo chambers.

The episode closes with a powerful conversation about consumer demand, clinical adoption, and why patients asking their doctors better questions may be one of the biggest drivers of change in healthcare.

Key Takeaways:

• What happens when an investor decides the problem you are solving is not real
• Inside the mismatch between women’s health startups and venture fund expectations
• Why founders need experienced operators and board members around them early
• How consumer demand is reshaping healthcare adoption from the ground up
• What women’s health founders miss when they only speak inside the existing ecosystem

My Reflection & Challenge:

Marissa walked out of a pitch meeting, while her company needed the capital,  because she was not willing to sit inside an investor group that let bad behavior persist without consequence. That is not pride. That is knowing which rooms will cost you more than the money is worth. Not every founder is in a position to do that, but every founder can get clearer on where the line is before they walk in.

This Week's Challenge:

• The next time an investor asks a question that has nothing to do with your business: what is your one-word answer, and how fast can you get back to the pitch?
• Where are you still chasing fund fit that structurally does not exist for your stage, your model or your category and what would it free up if you stopped?

Links and Resources: 

https://www.deeplookmedical.com/

If you enjoyed this conversation, follow The Capital Flex, leave a rating, and share this episode with a founder who needs it.

And if you’re looking for a more candid space to talk fundraising, power, and building inside systems not designed for you, stay close. The conversation continues.

Production and Administration work completed by Smart Podcast Solutions and Elevate Business Solutions. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

This is the Capital Flex. I'm Naseem Saini. This show codifies the Capital Playbook because no founder should have to learn the hard way. We talk about what really happens behind closed doors. The bias, the breakthroughs, and the things no one says out loud. If you've ever walked into a room and felt the system wasn't built for you, you're in the right place. Hello and welcome to the Capital Flex. My guest today is Marissa Fair. She is a 25-year medtech executive, innovator, entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist. She is the CEO of Deep Look Medical, a company transforming how radiologists and healthcare professionals visualize and interpret medical imaging with their FDA Cleared imaging software, which enables one-click segmentation and vivid tumor amorphology. This is especially transformative for breast cancer diagnoses and women with dense breast tissue. She is also CEO and founder of nonprofit Her Health EQ. She also serves on the investment committee of GG Ventures and is active both with the Milken Institute's Women's Health Committee, which I'm also a part of, and the Innovation Equity Forum, which is supported by the Gates Foundation. Her mission is to move innovation and the health of women forward throughout the world, which I love. We met a few years ago via a common friend and hit it off instantly. Marissa is smart, savvy, and has many of the same reactions to the ecosystem that I have. We have shared ruckus stories about all the things that don't work and that we would change. And so I'm so excited to have you on the pod today. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. I would love for everyone listening for you to introduce yourself a little bit more and tell us more about Deep Look Medical. For sure. Well, those highlights sound great. So you already did it.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

But listen, I'm I'm an engineer in business, and that's how I started. I spent 15 years in corporate doing new product development, mergers and acquisitions, namely for one of the largest women's health companies in the world, Hologic, lived out of country for many years as well through some of those acquisitions, which is where I got the great idea for her healthy queue, the global nonprofit. And so, but then kind of came back, burnt out before that was a thing and before that was popular. Everyone thought that I wasn't quitting and, you know, as was actually taking my mental health, which now everyone should do. But back then, 10 years ago, that was not a thing, certainly. And then I started a consulting firm and started getting um, you know, deeper into a lot of executive positions and then started investing as well, started working for some PE firms. And then COVID hit. I was the first project manager on the COVID-19 task force for all the diagnostics that we have out today. You know, right before that, the founders of Deep Look Medical actually found me through one of their investors. And so I was advising them for several years, and then about three and a half years ago, agreed to sign on as CEO. And so what we're doing is we're software technology focused on imaging and radiology and oncology. And we visualize soft tumor lesions, most especially in dense tissue, which obviously then affects dense breasts, long liver thyroid. So it's a software overlay, and this is just a known problem in the in the industry. And so we're not detecting it, but we're visualizing it. So there's a lot of, you know, I actually did two of those, those acquisitions of CAD into imaging companies. And so that's an older technology. It completely works, it's wonderful, but you still like it's great to find things, but then you need to see what is what's in there. And in any dense tissue, again, including dense breasts, you need to see so that maybe the off chance that a woman doesn't have to come back for a test that they don't need, or you know, or wondering there was cancer in there, or wonder if, like, should I be worried about this, or you know, or even the doctors who are exhausted, they're saying, like, actually, I feel pretty confident that there's nothing here without having to call a colleague over, without having to send for another test. And so that's the space that we play in, which is exciting.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

It's great. It's great, it's fascinating, it's so useful and so innovative and could change dramatically, right? How we do so many of the things that have pretty old technology attached to them right now. And so it's it's really fantastic. As you know, the mission of the pod uh is to get into the fundraising stories of all of our all of our friends and the people we spend time with who are in this ecosystem raising capital, building businesses. And fundraising is hard for everyone, it's especially hard for the women in the ecosystem. And and I hear all kinds of crazy stuff that comes my way. Uh and and one is to surface it, dig into it, and start to really package some of the learnings and insights so everyone after us doesn't go through it for the first time, or at least has a sense of what it can feel like and what happens. So to start off, what I ask everyone is if you had to describe your fundraising experience in three words, what words would you use? Kill me now.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Yeah. Yeah. The second you said three words, and I was like, I know it's that one. I know it's it's it's unbearable, really.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Tell us a little bit more. Hear a little bit more, but why?

SPEAKER_01 4:55

So I raised us a seed round and then rolled straight into a series A strategically because A, I knew it was going to take forever. We're also fundraising, you know, in the last three years, which are the worst, you know, traditionally the worst kind of three years that have been happening in capital raising in 20, 25 years. So there's that I know as a company that specializes in women's health. That's something else that's, you know, there's not that many people are interested in it, sadly. And then there's also the fact that I'm a woman. And so there's, you know, like, you know, we're the three hits against us. And I'm in the space, you know, like, like, and I hate to say, like, if I can't raise, then nobody can raise, but like, it's it's not that. It's because actually I hate raising money. I'm an operator, so I just like to run the companies. Sadly, as a CEO, I'm raising the money too. But it's so difficult. It's trying to convince people of why this is needed, and people, you know, answering the question, like, well, why haven't you raised more money, you know, you know, already? Well, that's not that's not like a qualifying question. So it's exhausting, it's constant, it's devaluing of, you know, myself personally and of our company. And it makes you question literally everything about yourself and who you are and how it should be.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Right. Well, I've heard this from so many, right? It can feel so personal because so many of the questions start to get so close to questioning whether you, the human, are any good when really we should be talking about the the fundamentals of the business. And the the line gets so gray in between the two. Do you remember some of the questions you got while you were fundraising or any ins insane questions you got while you were fundraising?

SPEAKER_01 6:41

I always love this one that what does my husband do? Oh, yeah. Well, you know, that comes up a lot. And it and men don't get asked that question at all. Right. It doesn't it that's not relevant to me running the company, but thank you. The the the the funniest one, actually, I think it's it's it's now comical. It was not at the time, let's be very clear. I was having I was in the middle of an investor pitch, which people had to choose to be on. And it was like a second round, and so like you chose to be on there. It's a Zoom call, and fine, that's great. And then I'm giving my presentation, and you know, I I can literally do it in my sleep because if you've been fundraising for three years, you physically can do it in your sleep, and that's sad. Right, absolutely. And you know, so I'm giving it and whatever and explaining why breast cancer is a problem and whatever. And and I had an investor take himself off of mute and said, excuse me, excuse me, I need to stop you for a second. And I was like, This should be great. And I and and I said, Yes, and he said, sorry, is breast cancer like still a thing? Like there's no, like we really haven't found a cause, like a, you know, there's no cure for this, there's nothing better, but like, is this still like a thing? Like, like, yeah. And so I just, you know, of course, you know, you're kind of like, is this real? And am I being spoofed? And so, you know, thankfully I was on Zoom and you know, I was wearing my blue light glasses, so you probably couldn't see me roll my eyes. And I looked at the camera and I said, Yes. And then I kept on going. And it's like like it actually happened. And honestly, at that point, like finish the whole meeting, find, you know, good questions from other people. And at that point, I emailed the group, you know, because they were like, hey, some feedback. And I said, Well, you know, respectfully, I'm good without your money. And at that point, we were not good without money, like we were trying to take money because you know, it was getting close to running out. And I just like, I was like, I can't be in a group of investors when they allowed that to happen, you know, and maybe they said something afterwards or whatever. But like the fact of the matter is that they didn't be like, no, sorry, sorry for that question and sorry for the interruption.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

I was going to ask, right? If anybody chimed in in the moment and tried to cut it off, or did you get an apology email later that said we're really sorry for his behavior? No. Or because the whole room must have, I want to believe, must have been stunned. I mean, like, I can't believe he just asked that question. Of course it's still a thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

They were. That's the problem. I don't think they were. It's wild. And so it's not like I'm asking about like like I'm talking about this like obscure concept that nobody in their whole world has heard about.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Well, it's good though that in the moment, there are a couple of things, right? So one, you might have been compelled to justify that yes, breast cancer is still a thing. And instead, you simply said yes and kept going, which is great because in other scenarios we might be compelled to justify it and kind of backpedal and great, didn't do that. And then two, deciding independent of any response from them or any follow-up from them, that thanks but no thanks, I'm going to move on and I don't need this check, is also quite a decision, right? Which, given to your point, the scarcity or what can feel like scarcity or the need for funds, et cetera, still waiting to see what they might say could have also might have been the default plan in most cases, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

And listen, that's just like one of many stories. Let's be very clear. I mean, and and I don't ever want to get into a situation where I'm arguing for money. I'm arguing to justify what we do because we're a commercial stage company with clinical adoption. Like I don't have to justify myself to to to you, especially somebody who doesn't understand the industry or that it's still a problem. And the fact of the matter is, like, I'll let the doctors, you know, who are using our products, you know, justify it. Like that's more important. And the fact that, you know, patients are getting value out of it, that's more justifiable for me. And I was like, I'm not gonna be this angry woman. Right, exactly. Right. Needing a woman's health company, having arguments, you know, on a Zoom or online or on LinkedIn. Yeah, if they don't get it, they don't get it. And those are the people that we're never gonna convince. And you know what? That's not the type of money that I'm interested in taking. And listen again, need like we have to take money where it is. And and to be clear, I have very few women's health investors or female investors into the company. And I don't like that at all. But the fact of the matter is, like, yeah, you when you're growing a company, you have to take money from where it is. I mean, obviously ethically and and that aligns with your values, but I'm okay not taking the big strategic money. I'm okay taking the ones that are like, yeah, this is personal for me. Or I know people argue, like when they start saying, Well, you know, my wife, you know what? If that gets your money into our bank account to help us grow and scale, I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

But it's not a bad thing, right? It's a it's fine, right? If that's what compels the check and it it's it's great, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

You know, there's a lot of people that have, you know, these very, very like high, it's not ethics, high standards of like, I only want money for people that align with this and this, and they meet this criteria. And listen, I wish that we were in a position, and that that is a position of privilege. And I am a thousand percent in alignment. Like, if that's what I could do, that's great. You know what? I have team members that I need to take care of that are building and growing and scaling our products. My loyalty is to them and to my shareholders and not to bankrupt the company. And I'm going to take the capital from a guy who says, Oh, my wife told me like we should invest in this. You know what? Yeah, because you know what? She told you that we should, uh and you should. And you listened. And that's great.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Let's go. I love it. Right. Yeah, here's here's a wire instruction. We're right ahead of it. Yeah. What kind of investor has beyond the the man who has the wife who said he should do it? Like, what what kind of fund or investor has has Deep Look resonated with it the most? Because you mentioned you don't have the women's health funds on your cap table as much. But so who has it been? How where has the fit been better?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Med tech and health tech investors. So we have a few VCs that really like to see this space and see like this is a in you know, an open space. We have a lot of angel groups that have come from multiple different places. I mean, we even have funds from the state of Arizona. I mean, I mean, we relocated here. And so, you know, they they there's a great ecosystem here and that they want to support local companies. And there's only, you know, a few women's health companies, and they're trying to grow that. That's exactly like I'm happy to to be part of that ecosystem. And like, I didn't follow the money here. I we actually got our lead investors here not being in Arizona, but I made the strategic choice to move the company here to Arizona so that we could have access to all of this to a system that is supportive, that understand, and maybe they don't understand what we do. Maybe they just want more companies here and there's a good amount of capital that's you know local. That's wonderful. And that's great. So it's a mix. There's uh I would love women's health investors, you know, and we have, you know, a few, uh, you know, certainly, you know, several women investors and and you know, but not specifically the women's that many women's health funds. And and that's simply a function. I don't think it's of us. I think it's of there are only so many, and obviously it continues to grow year over year and grows in value year over year, but there is a massive competition for women's health investors, for women's health companies. And because we're in imaging and radiology, yes, we're serving women's health. We can also play outside of that field, and I know so many other companies that cannot. And so it's it's not that I'm being altruistic and I don't want, you know, to take up the space, but I also think there's there's only so many companies that can be funded by those women's health funds. When you're a fund, you're, I mean, I was tied to funds. Like I understand the market, you have to hit your returns, and you're gonna hit your returns when you have companies with revenue that don't have long sales cycles, you know, into hospital systems that are tied to a Phillips Medical or you know, a Siemens, a big behemoth, that can take 12 months to, you know, it's a great deal. It's a great, you know, LOI, but it takes 12 months. And when you're not going, you know, a lot of these companies that are, you know, bait consumer-based or not necessarily known in like personally. And also there was a big push. A lot of companies, you know, we we did, you know, we've moved from fertility to the clinic space to expansion of other different types of clinics, now to menopause, you know, in those kinds, and and a lot of the also, you know, the the direct to consumers and in things like that, all necessary, but like there it's a different model. The lens is different, right? Right. And and also there's not that many women's health uh investors in and funds that are focused like in medical device, which it's healthcare, but there's still like very specifically devices, and they're like, Well, you're not gonna have a 45x. No, no, med device trades at a 2.5 to 3x. Like, I'm not I will gonna be higher than that, but like I'm not trying to like like I'm not gonna be a higher X.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah, the parameters are different, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Like, let's just be realistic. There's no unicorn coming out here. Yeah, right. It's a well, and it's it's a mismatch, right, between what those funds are after and what you're building. It's also the funds are so young and looking for and looking for hits because they have to build traction. As they should. And so it's just it's as they should, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

The mismatch comes where like we know we're gonna exit relatively quickly. And well, our mandate says, you know, seven years. I'm like, that's not gonna be helpful for a women's health company, a women's health fund. So we're all gonna start rolling up sooner or later. And, you know, you need to have some exits, and that's actually more of a proof point than you know, you having your 25x.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Well, and this is this is also a lot of what a lot of founders need to understand really well because they will. I hear so much that they have run after all of these funds or they and they just can't get traction, can't get a meeting. It, you know, it takes forever. And they we all just have to understand these dynamics of what the funds need to do, what they need to achieve achieve, what the whole stack looks like, so that you either spend time running after it or you just don't, because it is a fundamental mismatch on where those funds are and where you are and really what the economics are going to look like. And then you don't spend time, you don't waste time trying to run after it.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Right. And I went like after we I was introduced to who now is our lead investor. I didn't know who they were, I didn't know what they were investing in. They were kind of nascent in the space. It was through a, you know, a contact, uh, you know, a man that I knew that I, you know, knew we were raising money in the same ecosystem. He said, Oh, you should talk to them. To be clear, they denied us at first. And I said, No, I don't like that answer. And I kind of fought for it. And now, like, we were their first women's health investment. And then that, and now they have three women's health investments. It's like opening them up to the space. Well, like, we're getting all these women's health companies. I'm like, great, invest in them. Right. Which is which is what they should do. And like, and we're actively doing it and they're proud of it. And that's that's kind of like bringing other people, regular investors and healthcare investors, into the women's health space.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Well, and that's what we need to have happen, right? Is that the the echo chamber needs to open up. We need to bring these other investors in so that we all talk about this, not just the people who already know it. And and that we're working on it.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Well, that's one of the reasons why I've I've kind of pulled back on some of the speaking, and I know a lot of people that have at women's health events, because we need to speak at other events. Like we need to speak at general healthcare events because we can talk to amongst ourselves, and we all do, and and it's important for us to get together and talk about it and to solve problems, but it's also we have to expose it to other places, and that means different investor events, different investor groups, different geographies, you know. And and I mean, again, I'm in Arizona. I mean, who whoever thought that this was like a hotbed of, you know, women's health companies or healthcare companies? It is. It's just very quiet.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah. So as you were, as you've been navigating fundraising and on the topic of economics, how how has it been kind of defining your valuations or size of round? Or how how has that been for you? How have you worked through that?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, I'm personally not somebody who likes to raise money for raising money's sakes and raising a ton of money just to raise money, because again, my ego is pretty fine. I don't need external validation to be like, well, my gosh, you raise $45 million. I wouldn't even know what's due in this company for $45 million.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

You know, so I mean, I'll take it. It's good grounding. It's good grounding to not, I mean, big money is big money, but we don't need to have it. It's cool.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Right. So, I mean, you know, I think it's we varies knowing the environment we were in, knewing, again, you know, in this women's health imaging space, knowing I'm a woman, we obviously let our external investors, you know, lead the priced round. And so they set the valuation. They knew what our previous round cap was. We were raising a note, so they knew what that was. You know, they knew, and I was very specific, like we're not having a down round because there was no point to have a down round because we had commercial traction, we had partners. And so they valued it and we accepted it because again, I don't need a valuation for my ego. I would rather externally have more X's attired, you know, tied to it with a lower valuation than oh, they only turned to 2x because their valuation was, you know, overvalued. So we very specifically kind of came with that mindset, like because evaluation, it's a made-up number. It doesn't mean anything. It means nothing. It doesn't mean the value of your company, it means absolutely nothing. And so everyone likes to say, like, oh my god, they're a unicorn. Well, like they can't be one day and they could be bankrupt the next day. Let's just be very clear. They don't have a billion dollars in the bank. And so we very specifically kept it lower, still an up round, still, and also we needed the money. So I would rather get the money in to run the company at a lower valuation than have a high valuation for my ego. And we don't have the money and I have to shut the company down.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

But you are you're probably lower valuation than the company otherwise should be. Correct. Is that fair? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Yeah, correct. We are, you know, we're we're we're gonna close this current fundraising rounds at about an 18 post, 17, 18 post, and we should be well into the 20s. We have, you know, well into the 20s, if not a little bit higher. To be clear, we have nine commercial partners. I mean, and some of them are big partners, like two billion dollar companies, multiple, you know, even bigger names than that. We are commercializing with them. We have, you know, commercial traction, we have updated clearance, we have literally all of these things. And if I was somebody else, I imagine our valuation would be mid 20s to even 30. Million to start. And I hate to say it. I'm okay with it. Like it doesn't value me as a human or me as a value comes, more patients using it. And when we exit, that's the value.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

The X will be higher, right? It is, it's it's nonetheless frustrating, though, right? Because if you were a different person, Mark Fair, and there might be one of those in your life, so but who knows? The valuation, okay, but the valuation could be 10 to 15 million higher just by way of gender, which is unfortunate. But nonetheless, one day there will be an exit that pays off. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

And that's that's where everyone has to, that's where you have to see it.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

So you know, I know, you know, I some people come out of banking or they come out of, you know, this world and they're influenced and they're seeing all these other ones. Who cares? Like it's not a competition. That's the point. Like it's not a competition. Oh, you have a $12 million versus a $15 million versus a $40 million valuation. It doesn't matter. That doesn't mean anything. To me, I wanted to make sure that we were able to raise the money to support the company for us to go forward. If that is at, you know, a pre-money $12 million valuation versus a pre-money $25 million valuation, you know what? Those are different investors. And we also kept the rounds relatively small because I don't want to raise money to raise money. Like, of course, if somebody wants to give me a $5 million check right now, I mean, like, I could definitely take it and use it, but I don't, I don't have to.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Right. Right. And this is also it's it's being really thoughtful about how much money you need and when you need it, not worrying about the big valuation number because that's just the talking point for drinks and you know, the the headline that everybody wants, and being thoughtful about how much of the company you're selling at any given time and what the forward capitalization looks like. Because if you do raise a seed, let's say at a 25 million, what in the world does your series A need to look like?

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Right. And that's the problem. I also wanted to make sure, again, I took care of myself, I took care of our team. And if that means that we're raising at a lower valuation because I can control more of that, that's exactly what I'm going to do. And these are the people that are putting their blood, sweat, and tears into this company. And this company would not be in existence without it. And if I have the ability now to make sure that we have a good amount of, you know, of the company, it's not about like, I don't believe in a certain ownership stake and I don't believe that, you know, like I believe in external capital because I think that's where it grows and you can grow value for an organization. Like, you know, yes, you people should take money if that's the type of business that you're in. And but I want to make sure that we're not just raising capital, raise capital and diluting everything and you know, for for no reason. Exactly. For no reason, again, besides an ego trip.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

No, exactly. And now if you have eight commercial partners and you start to commercialize and there is revenue and traction that starts to really get very tangible, you're going to have the metrics to raise a much bigger round that's fully substantiated. And now, great, give us more money because I can pour fuel on this thing so much more quickly. So it makes a lot more sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

And I don't also believe that you should just always like just raise money to raise money. Because I mean, if you can raise money smartly, I mean, you know, if you have revenue, take a loan, take some debt off your revenue and not have another equity event. I mean, you do what's smart for the business and you know, manage control of it.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

So I know fundraising is one area of our lives where there's these funny dynamics. It often happens with uh running the business as well, right? And whether it's people we put into certain roles or it's service providers we work with. Have you had weird things happen? Agendered situations happen in those situations as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah. I mean, I I won't claim to be a tech person. I'm an engineer, but that means absolutely nothing when it comes to software. So I mean, you know, I brought in somebody who I trusted as as a as you know, as an executive position. And then they were obviously building out our infrastructure for tech. And they were more or less like saying, like, you need this, and we need this, and we need this, we need this. And like, I was intelligent enough to know, like, okay, like, yeah, I think this, like, I imagine we would probably need a cloud-based solution, you know, at some point. At this point, we're still still now multiple years into the business and the industry hasn't even gone cloud-based. So, like, why do we personally need to build that and spend $100,000, you know, two a hundred, hundred and fifty thousand dollars of money that we didn't necessarily have to spend at that time on something that we didn't need. And so because maybe this is my and listen, it's 100% my fault, let me be clear. Like, that's the responsibility that I take for it. But we we because I wasn't knowledgeable in the space because, you know, maybe it was probably a gendered thing to say, oh, okay, great. And I'm gonna go to my buddies that, you know, really know how to do this. And it was way overpriced because now I'm far more intelligent. And I have an incredible CTO who happens to be a woman and knows this industry. And she was like, Nope, did not need to spend that money. And, you know, she she was like, I don't, we don't ever need this. And and also, I don't even have like, we don't even own it. Like, we don't have the full documentation package either. And that's you don't have the documentation for the thing you already paid for. Right. And so, like, or and we have documentation for things that we're never gonna use. I'm gonna sell the company before we ever get there. And it's great that I can like and hand things over, but it's not even usable because it's gonna be two, three, four years old at that point. So things have changed so dramatically. And so I, you know, I think I think as executives and especially women in this space, listen, you have to take some leaps. I took a leap, that one didn't work. And I trusted somebody that like I thought could really help us and was great on so many things and on certain things was not. And, you know, sadly, I I didn't blind trust, but I trusted. And listen, it it could have been a woman who did the same thing, but it happened to be because like I just didn't happen to know that area of expertise. And it's frustrating, and you you have to take those leaps in order to grow the, you know, grow the business and scale it, but you also have to take calculated educated leaps. And I might have also been earlier in my CEO, you know, tenorship and to not question or, you know, not bring the board in to ask, you know, I didn't maybe have the right board members at that time to ask the right questions because it was, you know, it was it was earlier, it was when we were raising our seed ramp as well. And so like I didn't have some of the seasoned board members and observers that I have now. And so I wasn't able to probably ask those correct questions. I also don't think like I know a lot of people put a lot of value in in their team, which they should, but but to say, oh, well, they have, you know, this pedigree and this pedigree and this pedigree, listen, great pedigree might not be in alignment with the company and what we need at the time. And I kind of like, oh my God, great. Like, yes, like awesome pedigree, but not for us as a startup. Not what you needed in that moment. No, yeah, it was not what we needed in that moment, and it was not an alignment for the timing and what we needed. You know, I I think it was a little bit of taking advantage of and just also some of the areas that I didn't know best and not having the infrastructure around tab, be able to ask those questions, which now we have.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Right, now you have. And so in that moment, it would have been finding a way to have that infrastructure would have been the call, right? Like who else do I need to ask to vent it one step further? And and a lot of a lot of us, a lot of founders don't often have those resources or know who to find, but but seeking it out or saying, hey, this might be a little bit further than where I have the right toolkit to make a decision and and being okay looking for it, right? And seeking it out. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

And we have to ask the questions and we have to put that structure around us as well to help. Because you're only like any executive is only as good as the team around. I am never gonna claim to be the head, you know, of the technical team. Like that's just not my expertise, and I don't want to be. But you have to put the right people around them all, you know. I'm smarter because I have smart people around me. I'm not smarter because I know everything. Definitely do not. And I don't want to, quite honestly. That's the other point. I don't want to know everything. Like, I want to know enough that what I need to know, but I don't need to know how to do the programming.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

That's not the best use of my brain. What is that phrase? It's hire, hire smart people and then get out of the way, right? Because I don't need to do all the things.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah. I have to, I have to, I have to set up like where we're going, where I think that we're going, get, you know, get the feedback that we need, put the right people together. And like, here's what I want. You tell me when it's going to come back to me. That's how I operate.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's great. It makes a lot of sense. Have you seen any things in fundraising get better since you've been in the space or points of light or things that you think are improving for women in particular?

SPEAKER_01 30:59

I do. I I and maybe if you asked me this last year, maybe not. This year I'm starting to see it. I'm also seeing, like as we were talking about before, we there's a lot of other generalized healthcare investors that are interested in women's health, that are interested in investing in this space, that are interested in supporting women, that are interested in this opportunity zone. I also think, you know, one of the big reports that just came out um, you know, earlier this year, specifically around recategorization of a lot of the exits, that I hope will be transformative for many of us, us included, obviously, that people are starting to say, hmm, oh, wait, wait, this is this is an opportunity zone. And I think like there's more reports, there's more everything, there's more news, there's more this, there's more that, that you really have to be blind to not see that this is an opportunity zone and that investing in women's health companies and healthcare companies that are, you know, that serve women, that, you know, maybe companies that are led by women, like they're not necessarily needing to be mandates. They're just, it's just happening. I also think there's transference of wealth that's happening in the family office space, that there is an opportunity for a lot more capital to be controlled by people who want to do the right things. And it's a slow transition. It's not like, oh, 2026 is a brand new year. It's slow, but I I think I think it's getting better every year.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

No, I agree. I think the momentum is is shifting, right? And we're starting to see more, more attention, more curiosity. And and what we are, which you alluded to as well, is having more conversations outside of the echo chamber so that we start to plant the seeds and the opportunity and the talk track in rooms that are not the rooms that we're already in.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Yeah. I mean, I you know, it's funny. I sometimes still go to healthcare conferences and I talk about women's health, and people are like, I didn't know that. I'm like, what? Because once that started to happen, I was like, these are the rooms that we need to be in. And it's not to convince people, it's to start exposing them. It's awareness. It's awareness, it's education. Just like we were educating in women's health, just like we were educating here, just like we have to educate in every industry. You have to do it in fintech, you have to do it in ed tech, you have to do it in every industry. We also have to do it here. And so getting that awareness out there for all of us to speak somewhere else, to expose other people, to create these opportunities and opportunity zones for you know, for investment, for support, for alliance, you know, all of these things.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Right. Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. It it's it is getting better. And I think more we keep pushing it and being really objective about what we're doing and how we're doing it, the more we can keep pushing it. And that's what we have to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

And it has to be grounded in science and it has to be grounded in you know technology, and it has to be grounded in what the owner needs. So it can be a doctor, it could be a patient, it could be, you know, oncologists could be radology, it could be whoever. Like find the actual problem that exists and solve that. I don't want your snake oil solutions. We don't need supplements like for every single little thing. Like that's not what that's that's a portion of women's health, I'm gonna be clear. Yeah, but it's not all of it. And it's not just femtech either, because I'm, you know, semi, you know, it's it was a great categorization of a phrase and and and we needed it, but it's so much more expansive now. So it's not just it's not just tech, it's not just femtech, it's this, it's that, it's medical devices, it's this. It's making sure that we're innovating, you know, with women in the room and you know, thoughtfully also, you know, for women and with the gender differences related to everything and you know, research and design and funding and also putting a global lens on it because women's health on a global scale is different than women's health in the United States.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Oh, 100%. Yeah, it's a completely different problem to solve in different ways with different questions. Absolutely. So if you had maybe two or three big must-nos for other female founders, what do you wish you had known before you jumped in or in the space? Or what do you want them to know as they're prepping for fundraising?

SPEAKER_01 35:02

I want them to know how hard it is, and that's not personal. It feels personal. Every day it feels personal, but it's not personal. And also, I think when you're going after and starting, you know, raising capital, it's fine if you have your own personal story, but you don't that's not a you don't lead with that. That's part of the conversation. It's not a 20-minute dissertation on your health problems and then a three minute on the opportunity of the company. You have to speak to your audience. If you're speaking to women's health investors, like they probably know the problem. You can do a small education and then you can have a personal connection. If you're speaking to men who have no idea what endometriosis is, like you don't have to say that you have endometriosis. They don't care. They don't even know what it is. And again, it's not personal. It's what's the problem? Here's the solution, here's the market, here's why this matters. Knowing that it's so hard and it's not personal. Like go go in these rooms with your armor up. Like, know who you are, know you have a great solution, know what you're doing, know the company. And if they're assholes, that's who they are as themselves, honestly. It has nothing to do with you.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

It has nothing to do with you.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

You're also not gonna change their mind. Right. That's the other big thing to keep remembering. You're not gonna change their mind, and you don't need to. You pick up your stuff and you leave. It's not your job.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And yeah, you there are plenty of people, even if they're not women, who want to hear and want to know and want to connect. I have to tell you, most of my best connectors and most of our best champions are men. And maybe it's because I've been working in male damage dominated industries, you know, for my entire career, but that's who that's who maybe I resonate with. And it's great to have all the female support. And there's not a human that says to me, Well, that's not really like that's not a problem you have to solve, except that one gentleman. But I mean, it might not just be their investment thesis. And that's the other thing. Go and do your homework. So that's the other like advice. If you're raising money, like do the homework, but also know, like, not all the information's out there. I had no idea the name of our lead investors, never heard of in my entire life. Never ever. Most of our investors never, ever heard of, never showed up on a list, never still show up on a list. And you just have to like, it's it's through people and network and making sure that the fit is there and not just like like not walking into a room raising six million dollars when the company, when the fund will only deploy 50 million or more. That's not a fit, that's a waste of anyone's time.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Right. And that that again is the understanding of the economics, the dynamics, what the funds are after, and what kind of check sizes, given the size of the fund, what kind of check sizes they write? And you you have to do that homework. You have to understand it. So, yeah, it's a lot. That's great. It's it's fantastic advice. Yeah. Well, but the the point on the personal story, because I tell this to founders a lot also, is you get, I mean, I love a good personal story, but like I'm not gonna write you a check because you have a great personal story. I'm gonna write you a check because you have a great business and you're gonna win. So put the personal story in the appendix or tell it to me as part of your rationale for how you're going to win, because your hustle is coming from your personal story. Put it there. Don't spend 10 minutes on it up front because I put it in the appendix. It just doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

And I'm very much like you, you know, like again, also an investor personally. And if I if I have a pitch that comes to me that's like literally a 15-minute, like, here's my personal health history. I'm sorry. And I I empathize for with you, but I'm not investing in your company because that's not gonna work. Like the solution might be the best solution out there, but that's what you should have led with. And then tell me your why afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Yeah, agree. I'm with you 100%. So last question. What can everyone listening do to help you, to help deep look? What's the ask of all of us?

SPEAKER_01 39:06

I want everybody to ask their when they get their breast mammography, if they're using DL precise, they're using Deep Look, if they're using AI technologies in, you know, in their mammograms. And I want people to ask for it personally. They you have hospital connections and you know, radiology, you know, or any hospital connections, we'd love to have them. We're continuing to, you know, distribute our product and and grow and to scale. That's we want people to ask for solutions that are going to help improve their lives. I want all of us to just continue to support each other and ask for all these products. I literally walk into doctors' offices with a list for whatever I'm going for. I'm like, what have you seen this product? Have you seen this product? Have you seen this product? What about this product? What about this? Because if I'm doing it, other people should be doing it. And the more times these physicians hear about it, then they're gonna ask, curious, what is that? Or when the company actually shows up, oh, you know what? I had four comp I had four patients just ask me about that. Like I'm excited to hear you. And because you know, as companies, what we're doing is yeah, we're like, here's our information, here's what we do, here's our things, here's our information again. And it goes on deaf ears until they start hearing it from others.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Right. Well, and demand changes everything. I mean, this is what has driven the menopause market. It's been demand, it's been questions, it's been not accepting the status quo. And we need to do this with every single part of healthcare. It's just ask for it and say, I want, I want, I want, I want. And that is how we're gonna shift how things get done is consumer demand will change everything.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

100%. And if they're like, oh, I would love to hear about it, you know what? Then text me. WhatsApp me, link to me, email me, call you, and you'll call me. I mean, like, that's how this works. I do it for others. And I could that's quickly. That's that's how we have to help ourselves and help the ecosystem grow. And you know, I I like when I go in for cervical cancer screening, I'm asking, I'm like, what about all these ones? What about have you have you tried these? Can I just do this at home? You know, all of these things, you know. And that's what we should be saying. That's what we should be asking for.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah, 100%. Thank you so much, Marissa, for joining me and for being so candid and so open. And I think all the insights are tremendous. And I I know everyone will appreciate your voice and your experience so much. So thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to the Capital Flex. If today's episode hit home, share it with the founder you love and follow me on LinkedIn for more.